The 50,000-seat domed stadium opened in 1989 with a price tag of $600 million, mostly funded by taxpayers.

Here's a photo of Anglin Bay by Joché Katan taken today. While all the other harbours in the area are effectively in winter mode with little activity, Anglin Bay is still busy. Still in the water or drydock we can seefive tour boats of various size, a luxury motor yacht, and a 3-masted schooner.

Update, Nov 30 2004:

Here's a list of the boats, ships, and vessels currently at Anglin Bay:

• The Senator, Ottawa
• Wild life, St. Catherines
• St. Lawrence Cruise Lines, Kingston
• Island Queen III, Kingston
• Island Belle I, Kingston
• Papose III, Windsor
• Canadian Empress, Kingston
• Challenge III, Toronto
• Veronique, St. Croix, V. I.
• Francesca, a huge catamaran
• Samaria, Kingston
• Joanna, Ottawa
• Alle Mee, Belleville
• a ferry (from Howe Island?)
• There are many more boats there, all somewhat smaller and covered, in winter storage.

(This Whig story is not online, so the link above leads to the Lake Ontario Waterkeeper website).

Derek Balwin reports in the Friday, November 26 2004 issue of the Whig Standard, that Mark Mattson, president of Lake Ontario Waterkeeper, advises the city against filling in part of Anglin Bay for the purposes of development.

The article says:

Filling part of the river, Mattson said, is not advisable because it could take away an area of river bottom leaving fish without habitat.

It's not known if the water area around the targeted Kingston Marina lands is significant fish habitat.

Earlier this week, the city's arena project manager, Don Gedge, told the arena steering committee that the question of whether that shoreline is important for fish is now under study.

Here's an account of late happenings at the November 23 2004 Steering Committee meeting. It shows how important it is for people to attend those 7:00 AM meetings.

Despite evading the question earlier in the meeting, the chairman of the steering committee eventually acknowledges, in public forum, that there was no public consultation on the Inner Harbour site prior to its selection.

The next meeting, by the way, is scheduled for December 14, 2004, at 7 a. m.

The city has posted the October 19, 2004 meeting minutes (PDF, 6 pages).

We note errors among the facts conveyed by these minutes:

Mr. Hughes
Mr. Hughes asked if the site was committed and how this came about.
Mr. Gedge replied that the site was selected by Council and is subject to a successful feasibility study.
Mr. Robert Harlow
Mr. Harlow enquired regarding what portion of the report addresses the zoning of the site.
Mr. Gedge advised that the site is currently zoned commercial and zoning is not an issue to build on this site.
Ms. Betty Harlow
Ms. Harlow enquired regarding the zoning that indicates marine and residential, rather than commercial.
Mr. Meunier advised that Planning staff have confirmed that the use is acceptable for that piece of land.

The City of Kingston has posted its own press releaseon its website about progress on the LVEC.

In particular, this quote from Don Gedge seems striking:

"After meeting with opponents of the proposed location, mostly neighbours from the condominiums in the area, I am getting a feel for the genuine concerns of the neighbourhood," noted Gedge. "I can say with certainty that we are working hard to address their concerns. I have assured them that their concerns have been brought to the attention of the professionals doing the various studies and that these studies will be shared with them and the public at large," he added.

Derek Baldwin reports in the Wednesday, November 24, 2004 edition of the Whig Standard that the LVEC Steering Committee is considering filling into the river to enlarge the proposed Anglin Bay site for the LVEC.

Arena project manager Don Gedge told members of a steering committee yesterday that two of five models being studied would see a centre built entirely on land and wouldn't require any fill.

Those models, Gedge said, "are the preferred ones because they're the least disruptive to the shoreline. The likelihood is we won't disturb the shoreline at all. "

The other three would require that the city claim part of Anglin Bay to make room for the structure, he said.

One model would require dumping enough clean soil and fill into the river to create a patch of land about 12,900 square-feet (1,200 square metres) in size, he said. That's about one-fifth the size of a Canadian football field. Gedge told The Whig that if the 1,200-square-metre fill option were used, material would replace open water next to the existing dry dock.

Either way, read the whole thing.

Near the bottom, George Hood is reported to have suggested:

Committee member George Hood also suggested that some preliminary design concepts be created and posted on the city website to help the public visualize what a new arena could look like.

"It will help dispel some of the less-than-valid criticisms," Hood said.

Ian Elliot reports in the Tuesday, November 23, 2004 edition of the Whig Standard, on a presentation to the multiplex community centre steering committee from a private group intent on building a recreational complex in Pittsburgh. The complex would include It would include two NHL-sized pads, one Olympic-sized pad and a number of commercial uses including a doughnut store, discount department store and medical centre.

Derek Baldwin reports in the Tuesday, November 23, 2004 edition of the Whig Standard that a memo from Lance Thurston confirms that Ann Pappert,manager of the city cultural services division, did indeed allude to bringing lawyers into the process of negotiating with the Kingston and District Agricultural Society, who are tenants of the Kingston Memorial Center and use the fairgrounds each year for the annual fair. Background stories hereand here.

The city website now has a one page agendafor the next meeting to be heldTuesday, November 23rd, at 7:00 a. m. in the Councillor's Lounge at City Hall.

Here's the agenda to save you dealing with an Adobe. PDF download:

1. MEETING TO ORDER:
2. CONFIRMATION OF AGENDA:
3. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES:
   • Minutes of Meeting 2004-03 held 19th October 2004
4. POSSIBLE PECUNIARY INTEREST:
5. BUSINESS:
   a) Discussion regarding a road trip to visit LVEC sites - by Mr. Don Gedge, Director, LVEC Project
   b) Update on progress of the Workplan " by Mr. Don Gedge, Director, LVEC Project (attached as Schedule ‘A')
   c) Next Steps
6. CORRESPONDENCE: (attached as Schedule ‘B')
7. IN CAMERA ITEM:
   a) The Committee will resolve itself into "In Camera" to consider the following item:
   • A land matter
8. OTHER BUSINESS:
9. NEXT MEETING:
   • The next regular meeting will be at the call of the Chair.
10. ADJOURNMENT

Another great article by Robert Mackenzie, this one on citizen participation and how it might better be legitimately incorporated into the LVEC planning process, and pointedly not as a convenient symbolic exercise late in the process merely to confirm pre-determined outcomes.

Robert Mackenzie has contributed a new article titled Understanding of the merits of the proposed LVEC and its siting wherein he outlines the gist of studies by reputable organizations that question the real benefits of having sports or cultural businesses in a community. More evidence that points to the very real dangers of oversold benefits based on hearsay.

It's puzzling, no disturbing, that the steering committee, and Mr Gedge herein particular, show no sign of rising above the level of hearsay in quantifying the benefits of this multi-million dollar LVEC.

We received this letter from John Thomas about the vote during the November 9th meeting of City Council, referring the motion to keep the Memorial Center lands in public hands to committee, and some subsequent communications.

One interesting item:

(d) A 2005 project budget of $25,000. 00.

Another interesting element of the agenda is Item 6.

PRESENTATION: Heritage Village Arena Proposal for Pittsburgh Township - by Mr. Roy Connacher on behalf of Paul Brown, ACTS International Investments Inc. andRussel Steacy, RJS Consulting Service.

Paul Fiorillo, in a letter submitted to The Whig on November 1st, but so far not printed,about the Limited Vision Affecting Council (L-VAC).

Ian Elliot reports in the Thursday, November 18th edition of The Whig Standard on Don Gedge's presentation to a friendly crowd at the annual general meeting of the Downtown Kingston Business Improvement Area.

He sketched out a vision for an attraction on the waterfront that would benefit the community and the citizens, but he stressed that if ongoing studies of the site, the cost and the timing of construction don't prove out the location, the city will build the arena somewhere else.

"Some people are saying this whole thing is a ramrod job," said Gedge, referring to skepticism among some residents that the plans could ever change. He assured the crowd they could.

"... This is the site we'd like to build on, but if it doesn't work we'll build it somewhere else. The key is that it will be built. "

He also noted he'd spent a great deal of time meeting people who oppose a waterfront LVEC to try to alleviate their concerns and added the project needs Kingstonians who support the arena but who haven't publicly spoken out, "We need the silent majority to come out on this project," he said.

Why is this the site you'd like to build on, to the extent that other sites are not being considered for this investment?It's a very simple question.

As a symbol of what he was working toward, all who attended got a mockup of a concert ticket for the Tragically Hip's Aug. 1, 2007, concert at the First Capital Sports & Entertainment Centre's official opening, sponsored by the Kingston Construction Association.

And the price printed on that ticket was... $40 million? $50 million? The sponsors, Mr Gedge, are the taxpayers of Kingston. Don't forget that.

The next meeting of the Large Venue Entertainment Centre Steering Committee is scheduled for Tuesday, November 23, beginning at 7 a. m. in City Hall.

Reading the minutes of the September 14th meeting requires a suspension of disbelief and quite a tolerance for collegial self-congratulations.

Read the whole thing.

In this light, the "steering committee" moniker isn't really appropriate here. There's no sense that there's any steering to do other than to implement exactly what was pre-conceived with no public consultation, and no regard to the economics and merits of alternate courses of action.

UPDATE: Here's an HTML version of those meeting minutes. Therein is an interesting exchange:

Mr. Denis Black: Mr. Black wanted to ensure examination of other sites isn't precluded by focussing on one site.

Mr. Meunier advised the recommendations of the Task Force will be a guide to move forward and look at the feasibility of one site. Only it (sic) that site is unsuitable, can other recommendations can (sic) be made.

So it's official policy: The LVEC location is being railroaded. When the head city manager clearly says, in public committee, that main economic driver, location, isn't worthy of discourse, nevermind study, what you have is a scandalous breech of public fiduciary responsibility.

Nobody on this steering committee seems inclined to rise above babbling hearsay in seriously documenting the benefits and minimizing the downsides.

There's more:

Members noted the facilities of Mississauga, Guelph and London which had been viewed on their road tour, what they had gleaned from representatives they spoke with regarding community needs, and their determination of how this could be accomplished here.

Now in Saginaw their arena is in the heart of downtown, not several hundred meters away from the heart of downtown and, pointedly, not inaccessible through 180 degrees of arc because of water.

None of these sorts of things are being looked at by the "steering committee". They are categorically off the table. That's scandalous.

Looking at Plymouthshows us what an LVEC on the water actually looks like. Remember this, and how arenas all invariably look, when you hear someone talk of such a "jewel" on the waterfront. It's a con job: for jewels you always pay a hefty premium.

In a press release issued only yesterday afternoon, November 16th:Don Gedge, the City of Kingston's Large Venue Entertainment Centre (LVEC) project manager, will present an information update to members of the Downtown Kingston Business Improvement Area (DBIA) at its annual general meeting Wednesday, November 17, 2004.

Derek Baldwin writes in the Wednesday, November 17, 2004 edition of The Whig Standard that Ann Pappert, manager of the city cultural services division, said at no time did she advise the society that city lawyers would be retained to end a perpetual lease of the Memorial Centre site by the fair board.

Oldies 960 reports:

A movement to save Belleville's Memorial Arena continues to gain support.

The Belleville Chamber of Commerce is sending a letter to City Hall -- asking them to keep the Memorial Arena the way it is.

Last week, Belleville's Parks and Recreation Department began a study to see how they could improve the city's ice surfaces.

One of the four options was to turn the aging Memorial Arena into a convention centre -- and that plan doesn't sit well with the Chamber.

Ron Broadbridge:

"The users of the facility are adamant that it remain there for historic reasons, emotional reasons but also it is a good location in the downtown area. To change it to the Civic Complex, I think it would conflict with some proposed developments that are down the road for other parts of the city--private sector developments and I think that's where the conference centre type of facility should remain is with the private sector. "

Derek Baldwin reports in the Tuesday, November 16 edition of the Whig Standard that The Kingston and District Agricultural Society (also here) is being threatened with legal action if they don't surrender their perpetual lease of the Memorial Centre grounds. The city official doing the threatening, according to society president Brenda Draper, is Ann Pappert,the City Cultural Services manager.

Read the whole thing. Fascinating how Rick Downes again seems absolutely correct.

Jana Mills is allowing us to post the full text of her letter to the editor of the Whig Standard which was published on Saturday. Therein Jana argues that Leonore Foster should resign from the City's Arenas Committee.

Steven Serviss writes in Kingston This Week, Fri Nov 12 2004

When asked what the two biggest hurdles to the project are Gedge takes a long pause.

"Validating the site and purchasing it, and financing," he replies.

The business plan will examine the feasibility of the site and a number of studies are required. Gedge points out that among all the studies, approvals in eight areas are needed:

• Is it possible to build on the site;
• Phase I and II environmental testing on public lands;
• Geotechnical testing, how far down is bedrock;
• Traffic study;
• Parking study;
• Noise impact study;
• Costs of acquiring private lands;
• Cost of environmental cleanup and associated time frames.

All ongoing studies will be released to the public.

Ultimately, says Gedge, the site could fail based on three factors: It costs too much; it physically can't be built on the site; time frames are too long to warrant further work.

"The site must satisfy these three areas," he says.

We suggests doing the traffic and parking studies before the environmental and geotechnical work. Future financiers will require great traffic numbers which, face it, aren't optimum there.

Anyone sense that the desireability of the Inner Harbour is taking a back seat to its fesability, if only for regulatory paperwork compliance purposes?Moreover it's plainly obvious that there are less expensive, less sensitive, and better traffic spots on which to build this boxy cement gathering place?Where's the study that covers that?

We've posted this letter from Lisa Webb, published in the Whig Standard on Friday, November 5th 2004.

We've posted the full text of Williamsville Residents' Assotiation motion.

Bruce Todd has the following comment about Leonore Foster's statements at last night's Council meeting.

Derek Baldwin reports in the Wednesday November 10th edition of The Whig Standard:

Mayor Harvey Rosen's gavel pounded away noisily last night as angry veterans and Williamsville residents booed and berated council in chambers.

The potential sale of the Memorial Centre was at the root of their discontent. Veterans accused councillors of dishonouring the memories of Kingston's fallen soldiers by even considering the sale.

The outpouring of emotion from a standing-room-only crowd at City Hall last night failed to sway council from a plan to sell the Memorial Centre to help fund a proposed arena on Anglin Bay.

Council voted 7-6 to defer a motion by Councillor Steve Garrison that called for the city to continue to use the site as a "living memorial" to veterans and as a recreational jewel in the Williamsville District.

Those who voted to defer were: Mayor Rosen and councillors Bittu George , Floyd Patterson , Ed Smith , George Stoparczyk , George Sutherland , and Leonore Foster .

Read the whole thing.

It's amazing that it isn't clear to the pols by now (showstopper here and more here) that the Memorial Centre site won't be sold to developers to finance the LVEC.

We received this this letter from Brian Osborne about the spirit and the sense of community behind the creation of the Memorial Centre, and suggests that we should consider carrying these things forward.

We received this this letter from David Morgan who says much more can and should be made of the Memorial Centre site.

Joché Katan sends us this photo, taken on Saturday Nov 6th, of four tour boats in Kingston Marina. We see one of the boats in the drydock, and three others presumably awaiting winterization and winter storage. Also visible is Canada Dredge and Dock's 70 ton crane that's the only one in the region able to sling boats of this size.

The LVEC, if built here, would forever wipe out this last remaining marine capability in Kingston.

Frank Armstrong reports in the Saturday, November 6 edition of the Kingston Whig Standard that the owners of the boatyard and marina aren't necessarily inclined to sell their land to the city.

Gerald Wyatt reports:

In response to my letter of October 26 addressed to the Mayor and Councilors, I have received a response from Mayor Rosen. He says that "the December date for feasibility of the Inner Harbour site for the LVEC was suggested prematurely, not having regard to the extent of the studies, the complicated nature and the manner in which the lands would have to be acquired. The decision will not be made until all our ducks are in a row, which will likely not be until mid 2005. "

The timetable obviously wasn't workable, and it's good that Mayor Rosen is beginning to revise expectations here.

What's puzzling are the specific land acquisition reasons he gives. Does the Mayor Rosen believe that the best possible deal for Kingstonians can arise without bringing the best possible LVEC location, along with broad public support, into negotiations with partners? If not, then why is acquisiton of Anglin Bay in the critical path? Does Mayor Rosen believe that the Anglin Bay site is one that partners are most likely to enthusiastically buy into?Problem is, the opposite conclusion looks increasingly likely, based on the numerous objections (also here and here and many of the comments here) about the Anglin Bay site.

Maybe before spending too much more money and time on what looks increasingly like a sub-optimum site, the mayor needs to show what's really so great about Anglin Bay that other sites aren't even on the project radar. Given the good outcomes in revitalizing the Kitchener Memorial Auditorium, and the apparent concensus compromise reached about the Sault Memorial Gardens (compared to what they have now), both strikingly similar to Kingston in many respects, what's really so special about Anglin Bay that brings us so suddenly to the point of trying to acquire the land while ignoring all alternate facilities and locations?

Ian Ricketts reports that this website discusses the increasingly evolved plans for the new arena in the Soo. If you scroll to the bottom you'll see this link to five concept pictures of the proposed venue.

As with Kingston, Sault Ste. Marie has an existing building that honours its soldiers. They've come up with what appears to be a nice compromise. The building is on the same site as the old, and they are preserving the tower of the old building, which you can see in some of the images.

The item also mentions that the Soo Greyhounds are expected to commit to a 20-year agreement to use the new facility.

Check it out.

Including today this letter from Bruce Todd along with three others. On Saturday The Whig printed these comments from Bettey Harlow, which was published along with two other letters on Saturday. Clearly the citizens of Kingston are raising many questions judging by the number of letters the Whig is printing these days. Kingston This Week has also run several letters recently, including three this week.