Kingston Concerned About
the LVEC
Currently known as the "KROCK Centre"
Formerly the "Kingston Regional Sports and Entertainment Centre" or KRSEC
Formerly the "Large Venue Entertainment Centre" or LVEC
Home News
Minutes of Jan. 27, 2004 Meeting between the Mayor's LVEC Task Force and members of the Springer family
MAYOR'S LARGE VENUE ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE TASK FORCE
Meeting Notes
Special Meeting held 27th January 2004 at 9:00 a.m.
in the Sir John A. MacDonald Room, City Hall
MEMBERS PRESENT
Councillor Leonore Foster, Chair
Mr. Joe de Mora (left at 9:45 a.m.)
Mr. Martin Skolnick
Mr. Ken Wong
STAFF PRESENT
Ms. Susan Powley, Committee Clerk
ALSO PRESENT
Mr. Doug Springer
Mr. Michael Springer
Mr. Norman Springer (arrived 9:15 a.m.)
THIS IS NOT A VERBATIM REPORT
MEETING TO ORDER
Councillor Foster called the meeting to order.
Introductions were made of all who were present.
DISCUSSION:
Mr. Michael Springer and Mr. Doug Springer were present further to their request to discuss the mandate of the LVEC Committee in regard to their current use of the Memorial Centre as the owners of the Kingston Frontenacs.
Mr. Doug Springer noted the pending project will be the largest built in the City. As owners of the Kingston Frontenac Hockey Club, they will feel the greatest impact. He requested information from the members regarding their ideas and what would benefit the Frontenacs. Mr. Springer, Sr. advised that they have an awareness of all related buildings and can put members in touch with the various hockey clubs and managers regarding their experiences as major tenants.
Mr. Michael Springer advised they are excited about the initiative and wish to be included in the process, emphasizing the need for communication.
Councillor Foster asked what they as owners would like to see as no decision has yet been made. Public consultation is underway. User groups and potential users are being contacted. This meeting is held as the Frontenacs are a major user of the current facility.
Mr. Doug Springer advised that location is most important to allow fans to get in and out and to address the special needs for the hockey club. Wherever the building is located in the City, a new building is necessary. Mr. Michael Springer advised that Block D and downtown are not preferred. He noted that games are family orientated. In cities with new buildings, attendance tripled to become sell out crowds as the building becomes a place where people want to go. Mr. MichaelSpringer advised that what is best for the Frontenacs would be best for the community where the location is central, easy to get to and has adequate parking. A maximum 5-10 minute walk from parking is preferred.
Regarding the downtown area, Mr. Doug Springer advised they wouldn't be opposed to a strong voice for that location but would like assurances of the appropriate packaging of the facility. The Lasalle Causeway limits traffic and many fans come from Gananoque area and the east. Of 34 regular season games, 23 are held on Friday nights. Stores are open until 9:00 p.m. and bars and restaurants continue to be open. With little parking now, concern was expressed regarding increased parking needs as well as the traffic increase for 2000 more cars, noting someone would be adversely affected.
Councillor Foster advised the recommendation made will be for the location with the best opportunity and will not affected by lobbying.
Mr. Doug Springer advised the Memorial Centre site is central, has 22 acres, is City owned and has room for expansion and additional buildings. The site has worked for 50 years, would hold the least resistance from people who live there and would improve the area. Mr. Springer noted the Memorial Centre is downtown and is 4 minutes from the corner of Princess and Wellington Streets. Mr. Springer noted that cities with several ice pads have amazing synergy. An event like the Memorial Cup could bring $10 million to the City's economy in one week. On the other hand, a single event will bring people in but they will go home afterward. Many of the City's young people go out of town for activities and this benefits other cities. Special events like the Labatt event require many ice surfaces and people stay for the entire event. Kids for Kids has proven to benefit this community within the downtown area. Cataraqui Town Centre merchants recording their highest weekend sales and hotels were fully booked during this event.
Mr. Norman Springer arrived during the discussion.
Mr. Michael Springer advised that Kingston is an ideal city to host major events.
Councillor Foster noted a strategy is needed for the City to develop ice surfaces, as multi pads are needed. This could be a separate issue.
Mr. Doug Springer advised the site must have room for expansion and for example can be serviced by one zambony instead of a requirement for several if there are different sites. Whether the site is developed as a whole or in phases, it must integrate well architecturally. It is better not to have to move back and forth for ice pads and to be able to use services on the same site ie. laundry facilities.
Mr. Norman Springer advised the family are five generation Kingstonians. They bought the team and wish to stay in the City. Two interests are the hockey team and investments in the downtown, noting hockey could be played anywhere.
Mr. Norman Springer highlighted three important aspects of the centre:
§ Location - this is for the whole City; there is a need for access and egress. The Memorial Centre is downtown and has easy access to the downtown core.
§ Ownership - the City owns the land and there is parking on site which is an advantage
§ Short and Long Term Viability - must be considered and the emphasis must be on the long term. The Memorial Centre has the ability to expand and has fairly good access. Politically it would be viable as it has been there for a long time.
Mr. Norman Springer advised they would be happy wherever the location was decided. Mr. Norman Springer expressed concern regarding Friday night parking in the downtown and traffic problems across the Lasalle Causeway.
Mr. Doug Springer remarked that the London facility was built to revitalize the downtown which is different from the reasons for Kingston developing a centre. Kingston's downtown is successful and vibrant. London had 10,000 parking spots close by as well. There are not that many total parking spaces in downtown Kingston.
Mr. Skolnick advised the location is yet to be determined and queried if the downtown would be negatively affected if the centre was built outside the downtown.
Mr. Doug Springer advised that people would arrive in cars and it is a short drive downtown. Shuttles should be arranged. The real success is in more than one ice pad.
Mr. Norman Springer advised the Memorial Centre location would improve the downtown.
Mr. Doug Springer advised that a centre on the 'doorstep' would be better.
Mr. Wong queried the demography targeted.
Mr. Doug Springer advised that in Sarnia the attendance is the same now as before the facility was built. In Kingston, the hard core hockey fans attend the games solely to see the hockey. Mr. Michael Springer added that the expectation of a new facility would be attendance by corporations and families, a social gathering place for people from all over.
Mr. Doug Springer advised that what is important to them for an OHL franchise is not just ticket sales, but the advertisers. Presently, it is difficult to attract anyone to advertise at the Memorial Centre.
Mr. de Mora queried what families would be doing already on a Friday evening whereby they would change their locations. He questioned if this would reduce the impact on ie. parking and traffic congestion.
Mr. Doug Springer advised that models in Ontario and other provinces would provide helpful demographic information. In particular, the management in London, Barrie and Sarnia could be approached.
Mr. Norman Springer advised that a west end location would hurt the downtown. Mr. Springer, Sr. recalled the inception of the Memorial Centre which was the best facility between Toronto and Montreal and which was filled at that time. With a new facility, people will want to come.
Mr. Skolnick queried that if the Frontenacs would support any new facility, would the Memorial Centre be the preferred site.
Mr. Doug Springer advised they support a new facility, and not just the Memorial Centre site, but emphasized the site chosen must have room for expansion. Their team will play anywhere. Mr. Doug Springer and Mr. Michael Springer explained there should be multiple pads.
Mr. Norman Springer added that a main facility works and has synergies, although other pads may be needed through the City as well.
Mr. Michael Springer advised that the Kingston Frontenacs is a business. Mr. Doug Springer advised they need gyms, medical facilities, proper dressing rooms. The struggle is to bring in kids for tournaments vs the locations of Barrie or Guelph. The draft of other years has become a bidding competition with agents working behind the scenes.
Councillor Foster noted the difference between a community centre and an LVEC. The concentration needs to be on building a complex that will work.
Mr. Norman Springer emphasized that the potential for future expansion is important. To increase the size and number of pads, the location would not have to move as the land and the size is already there.
To a question by Mr. de Mora regarding their view of the size of the facility, Mr. Doug Springer advised they envision 5500 seats with 40 boxes. Sarnia underestimated the number of boxes and later built additional ones.
Mr. Norman Springer advised the potential needs to be 5500 - 7500 seats with the addition of ice pads and curling etc.
Mr. de Mora left the meeting at this time for a previously scheduled engagement.
Mr. Skolnick clarified the financial aspect of the mandate, noting the current lease which has been long term. It was noted that a long term lease is necessary for a long term arrangement with or without an OHL team. Mr. Skolnick queried whether a financial plan could be provided to assist the Committee in their deliberations.
Mr. Doug Springer advised that they hadn't been approached regarding a financial plan and would need to speak with the OHL about their ideas as a long term commitment has not been made. Mr. Michael Springer advised that they would have to reconsider if the deal was not competitive as it is fair ball to look at other leases.
Mr. Springer, Sr. agreed that a financial plan must be in place. The City is a wonderful city and the Frontenacs wish to remain and have a plan of how this can work. Mr. Norman Springer believes the income will offset the expenses so there is no cost to the taxpayer. There should be little risk.
Mr. Wong noted rents will affect the costs. They must ensure capital costs are paid. In regard to the effectiveness of naming rights, Mr. Wong queried what the best merchandising package would be for naming rights. Mr. Michael Springer advised the Canadian Hockey League may have some input into this. Mr. Wong explained that naming rights for a building are significant and will vary depending on the location. Mr. Doug Springer advised they have contacts who would be interested in this.
Mr. Wong queried what the Frontenacs are prepared to do for the City as an expression of willingness on a recreational front, not necessarily as a financial contribution but on a creative level. Mr. Doug Springer advised that hockey is a prestigious game and a leading spectator sport in Canada. 16 million people flock to CHL rinks, and the City is at the bottom.
To a question if the Springers could lend their name to provide value to things and events, to be behind community fundraising efforts and tournaments as assurances are required for terms and leases, Mr. Doug Springer advised that they could ensure the Memorial Cup, Prospects, and All Star event come to Kingston. These events previously held in Sarnia could just as easily be held here.
Mr. Wong requested a list of events they would be willing to support as this would be a competitive venture with other cities.
Mr. Springer, Sr. advised that a list can be furnished. Mr. Michael Springer noted these facilities would also bring commercial events such as concerts, Skate Canada and they can provide other ideas. Mr. Wong advised this would be very helpful.
Mr. Springer, Sr. said the reason events would come to Kingston would be for better facilities where everything works together, to include ie. parking. Mr. Michael Springer advised they run elsewhere as the City can't host some events.
Mr. Doug Springer noted the major component is the management team to run the facility; information can be provided.
To two questions asked by Mr. Skolnick to Mr. Norman Springer regarding location and a new lease, Mr. Norman Springer replied that in the end, they would support any location chosen by the Task Force. With regard to negotiating a new 'Market deal' lease, Mr. Norman Springer replied that they are willing to enter into a new long term lease on terms consistent with other recently negotiated OHL leases for comparable buildings and markets.
Councillor Foster highlighted the 07th, 8th February dates to visit facilities in Barrie London, Guelph and Mississauga. Mr. Doug Springer advised that the Sarnia facility should be viewed. Mr. Michael Springer said the Kitchener facility should also be noted.
To a question by Mr. Skolnick regarding their interest in naming rights, Mr. Doug Springer advised of their interest if the location was on the 401 as it would be a major focal point between Toronto and Montreal. Mr. Norman Springer advised that they also have other contacts interested in naming rights and will work together with the Committee. When asked to identify the contacts, Mr. Springer declined.
Mr. Norman Springer advised he would like to see 'Memorial Centre' in the name if possible, and advised they are willing to communicate in the future. Councillor Foster advised the Committee is willing to communicate as well.
It was agreed that the Springers would advise the Committee as soon as possible of any financial perspectives, a list of tournaments and terms involved in the hosting of events, and the financial impact.
Mr. Michael Springer advised he could assist in setting up a visit with Mr. David Branch, Commissioner, OHL either in Mississauga or here, to ensure a successful franchise in the City.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 10:20 a.m.
Back to
KCAL home page